tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post4752880160601449044..comments2024-02-05T17:24:09.663+08:00Comments on Gold Chat: Chinese regulations: rule of law or rule by law?Bron Sucheckihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-23874120015258814422014-12-15T11:55:50.242+08:002014-12-15T11:55:50.242+08:00I left a comment to Koos response to this post her...I left a comment to Koos response to this post here https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/gold-chat-bron-suchecki-chinese-gold-lease-market/#comment-1742371754Bron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-1614580614693038522014-12-13T13:45:46.509+08:002014-12-13T13:45:46.509+08:00Followup to above needed:
I've just now take...Followup to above needed: <br /><br />I've just now taken note of an "update" which Koos inserted Dec 12 into his Close Look At The Chinese Gold Lease Market piece...<br /><br />"after a post from Bron Suchecki it made me realize the two examples above are hard to compare" -re SGE/IMF rulebooks<br /><br />which I suspect will be as close as we get to him addressing that vital element of the debate - although I hope I'm wrong about that! It would appear to be a gambit of underplaying that aspect via quarantine/so as to be able to ignore it subsequently. <br /><br />Also, in my previous comment, I did not mean to imply that no one cares "whether gold leasing might influence market prices"(!!!) <br /><br />Of course, we do care... but in the context of Brons' original point - China's use of such a tool was brought into the discussion simply in order to emphasize that central banks are wont to be central banks... no black or white hatwear required!Nutsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-74789827041215193092014-12-13T12:03:38.483+08:002014-12-13T12:03:38.483+08:00Now that Koos has weighed in with his response @bu...Now that Koos has weighed in with his response @bullionstar, we can return to our conversation here. <br /><br />That his response has confined itself to but one[how to interpret specific data sets]of the four levels on which that conversation is taking place is neither surprising nor unwelcome of itself...<br /><br />but it's critical to keep that full spectrum perspective in play.<br /><br />I think it's important that Koos realize at some point that no one really cares about the minutia of WGC estimates and his own chosen numbers - nor whether gold leasing might influence market prices. That is not where the conversation is PRIMARILY taking place here - although it certainly is the focus on his own blog. <br /><br />Here, we are discussing the obstacles that exist to accurate interpretations of the movement of gold into and throughout China - obstacles that are posed to ANY AND ALL outside observers - and that necessarily limit the accuracy of conclusions those same observers offer. All those sincerely interested in the truth would be wise to invest some attention to that element of the discussion!<br /><br />As has been noted, some of these are 'cultural' in origin... some 'technical'... and some are self-imposed - as in errors of interpretation resulting from allowing pre-conceptions to influence conclusions. <br /><br />Although Mr. J may feel that resistance to his methodology stems from an inherent disfavor towards employees of bullion companies(unlikely - since such filter would eliminate our host as well!), or quibbles over said WGC numbers, deeper reflection would surely guide him to an understanding that rather naive reliance upon 'official' statements, state-supplied statistics, quotes from gold traders, and/or the premises of currently in vogue "alternative media" narratives...<br /><br /> do not add up to a compelling defense of the “key takeaway” that in China “the gold on lease is not double counted, leveraged or fractionally backed, as is often the case in Western gold markets”...<br /><br />which was, after all, the original focus of Brons post. Was it not? <br /><br />Back to you Koos!Nutsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-163088232559792882014-12-12T20:12:55.047+08:002014-12-12T20:12:55.047+08:00Koos Jansen's follow up post on China's Go...Koos Jansen's follow up post on China's Gold Leases:<br /><br />https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/gold-chat-bron-suchecki-chinese-gold-lease-market/Spartacus Rexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01154832096182417817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-12267035282479767372014-12-12T19:15:33.413+08:002014-12-12T19:15:33.413+08:00Mais qui Koos!
with the caveat that
a tonne of t...Mais qui Koos!<br /><br />with the caveat that<br /><br />a tonne of tungsten <br />made to shine, with coat of filigree,<br />to all the world will seem as au, <br />yet not quite really be!Nutsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-65944786921252673632014-12-12T18:08:13.345+08:002014-12-12T18:08:13.345+08:00But we can agree a tonne in the West weighs the sa...But we can agree a tonne in the West weighs the same as a tonne in China?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260188706906112262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-5785047752867509512014-12-12T14:26:58.952+08:002014-12-12T14:26:58.952+08:00The previous thread opened up multiple strands in ...The previous thread opened up multiple strands in a discussion which Bron is doing a masterful job of pursuing here, under the overall rubric of "differences in communication."<br /><br /> Those strands, although complementary in essence, also compete for attention... <br /><br />and in discussions such as this one, one often gets pushed to the forefront, at the expense of the rest. <br /><br />To avoid that happening, here is a list of the multiple levels on which this conversation about "ChinaGold" is taking place - in ascending level of complexity: <br /><br />Differences in communication <br /> = how to translate specific terminology.<br />= how to interpret specific data sets<br />= how to understand delivered messages in their cultural context<br />= how to represent, to the benefit of others, the overall purpose of policy measures... including ones dictated by strategies hidden to all but the innermost circle of those wielding power...<br /><br />by the last of which, we reach the point of equilibrium - ALL of us are merely guessing! A worthy exercise, no doubt...<br /><br />as long as one remembers, as "Out of the woodwork" most presciently brought forward... yes <br /><br /> "rules do seem irrelevant"<br />in the opaque world of gold!Nutsternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-81863685567816809422014-12-11T19:56:51.676+08:002014-12-11T19:56:51.676+08:00Link to Andrew Maguire letter https://www.bullions...Link to Andrew Maguire letter https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/a-letter-to-andrew-maguire/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260188706906112262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-79496422637349655462014-12-11T19:50:04.154+08:002014-12-11T19:50:04.154+08:00Interesting that change occurs post the January 20...Interesting that change occurs post the January 2011 paper. Perhaps they are trying to hide the fact that, as per the paper's recommendation, "PBOC may purchase gold from commercial banks to reach its gold reserve target"?Bron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-91686108361362007752014-12-11T18:29:09.001+08:002014-12-11T18:29:09.001+08:00The SGE used to report on a lot more in English. U...The SGE used to report on a lot more in English. Until 2011 they published extensive annual reports disclosing deposits and withdrawals, from 2012 they only published most of it in Chinese. Recently they even removed all the older English reports from their website, luckily I have saved everything :) <br /><br />This links to a screen shot of withdrawals and deposits in 2011 https://www.bullionstar.com/blog/koos-jansen/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Screen-Shot-2014-12-11-at-11.21.31-AM.png<br /><br />The SGE still publishes weekly silver inventory, but only in Chinese. (and of course gold withdrawals) <br /><br />In my opinion they stopped disclosing everything in English to hide their demand. <br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260188706906112262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-89438549117574064582014-12-11T17:35:57.721+08:002014-12-11T17:35:57.721+08:00We are working on the comments to re-appear.We are working on the comments to re-appear.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09260188706906112262noreply@blogger.com