tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post5538960432284151778..comments2024-03-29T07:10:06.022+08:00Comments on Gold Chat: Why the Bundesbank is (slowly) repatriating (some of) its goldBron Sucheckihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-44380135831699750392014-01-24T18:33:29.012+08:002014-01-24T18:33:29.012+08:00Anonymous on 22 January, 2014 08:55: No, you clear...Anonymous on 22 January, 2014 08:55: No, you clearly didn't read the attempt to "debunk" Eric Sprott; not if you came away with the notion that FOFOA tries to explain the discrepancy with private exports. Please read it again - all the way through this time!Börjessonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-89686161189294175832014-01-22T21:57:31.690+08:002014-01-22T21:57:31.690+08:00The German people would have had a better chance o...The German people would have had a better chance of getting their gold back from the Russians. The role the Fed may be playing in propping up the EU banks may explain why the Bundesbank is not raising more of a fuss over the lack of response to their request for their golds return.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-17916093812089379512014-01-22T08:55:10.970+08:002014-01-22T08:55:10.970+08:00Bron, I just read the attempt to "debunk"...Bron, I just read the attempt to "debunk" Eric Sprott's work. It is a very weak argument that revolves around a claim that "private" American sellers parted with the gold bullion. That is basically an impossibility. Remember, all gold bullion in the hands of banks, individuals and other entities was seized by the US government under President Franklin Roosevelt in 1933. That resulted in the coin-melt bars at the Fed and Fort Knox. At the beginning of the 1970s almost no gold, other than jewelry (old jewelry melt is the scrap supply and already counted) and numismatic coins. The vast majority of gold trading, in the USA, during the 1970s, when it became legal again to own gold bullion, was in the futures markets. Americans NEVER accumulated large quantities of private bullion in bar form. The only physical gold, accumulated by Americans in the 1970s, during the gold fever period, were gold coins. Census statistics have two categories of exports in gold, separating gold coins from non-coin bullion. It would be extraordinarily unlikely for private owners of coins to melt them down into bars to export, since the coins are worth more, everywhere in the world, in coin form. Since Americans and American banks, by and large, accumulated ONLY gold coins and futures contracts, during the 70s, the source of the gold bullion bars being exports CANNOT be private American sellers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-33527067443520715542014-01-22T07:20:24.259+08:002014-01-22T07:20:24.259+08:00Anon,
The Sprott import gap theory debunked here ...Anon,<br /><br />The Sprott import gap theory debunked here http://fofoa.blogspot.com.au/2013/09/what-about-sprotts-4500-tonne-export-gap.html<br /><br />The Alsadiar Boe 1300t theory debunked here http://www.screwtapefiles.blogspot.com.au/2013/07/bank-of-england-vault-floor-layout.htmlBron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-82386382338441738742014-01-21T22:14:41.998+08:002014-01-21T22:14:41.998+08:00In light of recent revelations that only 5 tons ha...In light of recent revelations that only 5 tons have been repatriated by the Fed over the past year, and 32 tons by the Bank de France, one must wonder about both entities. Repatriating gold from France does not even require air flights, and, yet, of the 374 tons that is supposed to be returned by that entity, in an entire year, only 32 tons have been delivered!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-84329709747091950562014-01-21T22:04:33.056+08:002014-01-21T22:04:33.056+08:00(continued from above)
The balance of the gold ex...(continued from above)<br /><br />The balance of the gold exported from the USA necessarily came from gold held on behalf of foreign nations. The only remaining question is whether it was transported with or without their consent. The theory that the Fed's gold vault is nearly empty is strengthened by Alastair MacCleod's discovery that the April paper gold manipulation was backed not by the US Fed, but by the disappearance of some 1,300 tons of physical gold from the Bank of England's gold vault. <br /><br />Why was Bank of England gold used? Remember, the April gold smash that started on April 12, 2013 was prefaced by the dumping of some 400 tons of paper gold contracts created by derivatives dealers at COMEX. The day prior, on April 11, 2013, a meeting had been held at the US White House. This is a matter of official record. Every single CEO of every single primary dealer of the Federal Reserve attended this meeting, and it can be found on the White House's official calendar.<br /><br />Based on the proximity of the meeting to the next day's gold price smash, it is rather clear that the price reduction was a US Treasury operation. In all probability, the Fed was panicking at the thought that it needed to deliver gold to Germany when it didn't have any to deliver. A failure to deliver, or an admission that the German gold was stolen, would devastate the US dollar and economy. Wars have been started for less.<br /><br />There was no reason to use Bank of England physical gold to supply a US government operation. It would only happen if part of the manipulation event involved a location swap between the Bank of England and the US Treasury. There is no doubt in my mind that location swap liens have been placed against gold held at Fort Knox or another Army-guarded depository that is not easy to enter. <br /><br />If gold bars were still at the Federal Reserve, they would have been used directly. The implication, and it is a strong one, is that the Federal Reserve has loaned out most of the gold bars. Remember, JP Morgan had a division known as "Morgan Capital". It was dissolved by absorption into the corporate shell of the parent company, but it was not disbanded. The former Morgan Capital is still the main agent of central banks in the New York market. This includes carrying out policies laid down by the New York Federal Reserve and the Bank of International Settlements. Mysteriously, it is now taking delivery of a huge amount of gold futures contracts at COMEX. That implies that the firm is being asked to repay past gold loans, so that the Fed can come up with gold with which Germany and/or others can be repaid. <br /><br />Bottom line: The Federal Reserve vault is empty, and the Bundesbank probably knows it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-62160340107986497572014-01-21T22:03:34.345+08:002014-01-21T22:03:34.345+08:00Bron, you are not considering the repeated paper g...Bron, you are not considering the repeated paper gold dumps, at COMEX. We have seen numerous multi-second intervals where prices are taken down by the offloading of huge tonnages of paper gold that overwhelm even robust demand. Someone is desperately trying to manage down the price of gold even at the cost of losing money.<br /><br />The COMEX gold dump that kicked off the April gold price collapse was even larger than more recent ones that triggered trading stops, although it was done over a multi-minute interval, rather than multi-second intervals. About 400 tons were reportedly sold in the morning of April 12th. About 300 tons more sold the following Monday morning. <br /><br />Logic tells us that someone is willing to bankroll non-economic short selling to manage the price of gold. The US government has been overtly managing gold prices for the entire history of the nation up until the late 1970s when they claim to have stopped. Even in 1867, when a NY gold trader tried to corner the gold market, then-President Ulysses Grant ordered the sudden sale of a huge tonnage of gold to destroy the upward manipulation scheme. Even before that, in 1963, with fears of national collapse having caused gold dollar coins to be worth triple the value of paper greenbacks, the US Congress passed the so-called "Anti-Gold futures Act", in an attempt to break the gold market. <br /><br />In the 1960's and 70s, with the dollar under great pressure from US deficit spending and high inflation, US officials also openly sold gold with the overt admission that the sales were designed to reduce prices. The world population is much larger, and US gold stocks much smaller, than before. It is no surprise that, after the failures in the 1970s, the US government would turn to covert methods starting in 1980. The market simply became too big to openly manage. This is documented in newly released archives, wherein former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger was advised that the US had "lost control over the gold market."<br /><br />Eric Sprott discovered that US Census Bureau records show 5,000 tons of physical gold bullion exported from the USA, between 1992 and 2010, above and beyond what is possible given known levels of mining and scrap supply. That implies that US gold has been deployed for many years to support covert paper market manipulations. <br /><br />Where did this exported gold come from? The Federal Reserve' gold vault, underneath 33 Liberty Street, contains the only easily accessible location. Remember, Fort Knox, West Point and the Denver Mint are all guarded by the US Army. Taking the gold from those depositories would become public knowledge very quickly. Only the Fed could covertly supply 5,000 tons of gold for export. But, the USA owns only 2% of the gold held by the Fed. The rest is owned by foreign nations, including Germany. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-15854664853445199882014-01-21T17:58:45.388+08:002014-01-21T17:58:45.388+08:00I doubt that the Bundesbank have a partnership of ...I doubt that the Bundesbank have a partnership of equals with the Fed. If they did, it would be a complete anomaly to the rest of american government (yes, the Fed is not govt). I'm not aware that america has any "partnership of equals" with any country. So, I'm sure they both had a "respective, professional meeting", but at the end of the day, the Fed advised the Bundesbank what would be an appropriate amount of gold to receive back. The Fed is an expert in these matters, and the Bundesbank knows to respect their professionalism. As Jim Rickards says long ago, if there is a currency crisis, the Fed will just seize the german gold and hand them a paper IOU. Does this sound like an equal partnership?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-40231702240473399452014-01-21T17:04:49.546+08:002014-01-21T17:04:49.546+08:00You have a bad habit of painting speculation as fa...You have a bad habit of painting speculation as fact. A scenario equally as plausible as yours is that the New York Fed has leased/swapped/sold Germany's gold. The Bundesbank, as a member of the club, is hardly going to come out and humiliate the New York Fed by publicly acknowledging that Germany's gold, supposedly held in the U.S. is in fact gone. This would cause a global crisis in the gold market, hence the slow trickle of gold returned to Germany. This could quickly be cleared up by allowing a full independent audit of gold bullion held by the New York Fed, as well as actually establishing true ownership of the bars. However they don't seem too keen on that, do they.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-67761957788915350282014-01-21T15:23:58.771+08:002014-01-21T15:23:58.771+08:00It is the getting of the gold out of Fed building ...It is the getting of the gold out of Fed building that can't be done in secrecy. In fact the more army you have the more public it is. Have a hink about my loading dock statement.Bron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-37408301868724789182014-01-21T15:10:05.894+08:002014-01-21T15:10:05.894+08:00"As to the flights/warships idea, yes that is..."As to the flights/warships idea, yes that is possible, but what message would such a highly public process send about Germany's confidence in US fiat."<br /><br />Hahahaha... If even the public can know so easily the tasks and routes of military aircraft/warships, don't you think it's too easy to work as a spy? Do you think a military force that can't keep such minimal secrecy can fight in a war?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-17686122077983619962014-01-21T12:37:10.583+08:002014-01-21T12:37:10.583+08:001. Because I'm busy right now and will deal wi...1. Because I'm busy right now and will deal with the logistics issue in a post.<br /><br />2. Because people questioning US fiat means opens the door to questioning all fiats, and central bankers. Read this http://www.salientpartners.com/epsilontheory/notes/American_Bandstand.html it is about maintaing the Narrative of Central Bank OmnipotenceBron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-11001222100997090342014-01-21T12:28:01.369+08:002014-01-21T12:28:01.369+08:00You said "You clearly have no understanding o...You said "You clearly have no understanding of how gold vaults are operated and the logistic issues involved in getting large amounts of gold out of a vault - they don't run a loading dock like a supermarket warehouse." But you didn't explain anything. Why? Just to show some mystique?<br /><br />You also said "As to the flights/warships idea, yes that is possible, but what message would such a highly public process send about Germany's confidence in US fiat." So Germany MUST show confidence in the US fiat? Why? Is it in the The Basic Law for the Federal Republic of Germany? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-54714681348135743932014-01-21T12:25:52.719+08:002014-01-21T12:25:52.719+08:00Where did I say they couldn't move 15 or more ...Where did I say they couldn't move 15 or more tonnes in a month?<br /><br />I take issue with this idea that you can move such or more amounts in one go.<br /><br />Do you think Hugo trusted the central bankers? Yet it took him 4 months to get 160t. As we can be sure he wanted to get his gold ASAP, that would have to be the fastest rate possible.Bron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-79236812158734057392014-01-21T12:19:08.697+08:002014-01-21T12:19:08.697+08:00come on, Bron......
All the Germans had to do was...come on, Bron......<br /><br />All the Germans had to do was to ask the Chinese about these "logistic issues". They seem to have this down to a science.<br /><br />If the Germans couldn't get 15 tons of gold on just one of their 71 Transall C-160 and give a good cover story for it's trip to New York and back............. stretching disbelief, is a gross understatement.JohnMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-22589683375184030692014-01-21T11:48:22.047+08:002014-01-21T11:48:22.047+08:00y only question is, Bron, why did they take the go...y only question is, Bron, why did they take the gold from London?<br />Are the Amis better CBankers than the English ones? Are they more trustworthy?<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-503242667057396412014-01-21T11:45:46.986+08:002014-01-21T11:45:46.986+08:00You clearly have no understanding of how gold vaul...You clearly have no understanding of how gold vaults are operated and the logistic issues involved in getting large amounts of gold out of a vault - they don't run a loading dock like a supermarket warehouse.<br /><br />As to the flights/warships idea, yes that is possible, but what message would such a highly public process send about Germany's confidence in US fiat.Bron Sucheckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00530576934994289879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-82606625025855386312014-01-21T08:59:22.154+08:002014-01-21T08:59:22.154+08:00ROFLMAO!!
@JohnM
Bullion Baron keeps resisting t...ROFLMAO!!<br /><br />@JohnM<br /><br />Bullion Baron keeps resisting that German's decision is based on trust from Dave in Denver's blog to here. This is equivalent to lying 1000 times and hoping the audience would believe him.<br /><br />Germany is dealing with a superpower with nukes and troops on the German territory and Bullion Baron still thinks German's decision is based on trust?? Sure! You have a gun pointed at your head and of course you trust the power of the gun.<br /><br />The US has 200+ Boeing C-17 Globalmaster III, each of which can carry 60+ tonnes. Why does Germany need commercial flights and insurance? During the Berlin Blockade, the Allies transported 4700 tonnes of cargo daily to Berlin. So the US has suddenly become a miser? But Germany is a rich country and can of course foot the bill! <br /><br />If Mr Suchecki believes flights are not safe, we can use ships! Germany has 12 frigates and 5 corvettes and the US has 10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers. All can be used to transport the gold! If the soldiers couldn't protect the gold, do you think they could protect their motherlands??<br /><br />Oh, right. Mr Suchecki and Bullion Baron would insist that Germany wants something cheap. Cheap?? Germany spent 119 billion euros on the EFSF to bail out the PIIGS and Germany's annual military expenditure is 45 million USD. All of sudden, Germany grudges paying some money for her own affairs? What do we call this? Altruistic or Moronic?<br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-85054587625595322632014-01-21T06:09:44.352+08:002014-01-21T06:09:44.352+08:00@BB,
The official statement would have to suggest ...@BB,<br />The official statement would have to suggest that the repatriation rate came from Germany...its the only (weak) tactic they have.<br />CheersRod Holdenhttp://www.returnaussiegold.net.aunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-37366532751642603272014-01-21T05:27:28.181+08:002014-01-21T05:27:28.181+08:00Ok, listening to the interview, the perspective be...Ok, listening to the interview, the perspective becomes clear. Of course, Germany "has the gold" so there's no contradiction.phillwvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-85609402410709057672014-01-21T05:27:10.843+08:002014-01-21T05:27:10.843+08:00Bundesbank is not really a Central Bank anymore - ...Bundesbank is not really a Central Bank anymore - the ECB is - they were slighted and pushed out of the elite BIS Club to a degree. That's why their Reps could be twice bullied in NY. The real story is in leasing in days gone by when they and their smelters would bitch about the poor quality of gold they were getting from NY. The Yanks and BOE knew and didn't let on, other than to cut a side deal to try to keep people more or less happy. Thing is, they may have incriminated themselves on old gold holdings and re-smelting for SWAPS or Leases along with the FBNY and BOE. I don't know how long we have, especially if the Chinese dark banking deal slows them down, but we are headed for a train wreck....if the truth ever gets out. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-27023394862307115132014-01-21T05:02:59.942+08:002014-01-21T05:02:59.942+08:00Rickards said in the same piece:
“[Countries] wan...Rickards said in the same piece:<br /><br />“[Countries] want physical custody of gold…[they're] positioning for the day when there’s a massive loss of confidence in paper money…<br /><br />"You’re seeing it with massive acquisitions of gold by Russia and China taking place through channels that bypass the London Bullion Market Association…They’re buying mines in Western Australia. They’re having the ore refined right there in Australia at the Perth Mint, and then shipping the gold straight to Shanghai. <br /><br />"They’re completely bypassing the London market where they minimize their market impact, which is a smart move. That’s what you would do if you were trying to buy gold and not run up the price. You would do everything in secret and that’s what’s going on.”<br /><br />Out of context it tends to contradict Rickard's Bundesbank-repatriation view. <br /><br />Note: GATA's extract doesn't appear in the linked paraphrased transcript on the source website of interviewer Tekoa Da Silva.phillwvnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-72411541224542749472014-01-21T05:00:02.561+08:002014-01-21T05:00:02.561+08:00@BB
From what I read of this which seems to be a ...@BB<br /><br />From what I read of this which seems to be a translation of a Der Spiegel article, it seems the verification was to be done in Germany. This article throws up even more questions. Complying with the German court is one of them.<br /><br />So Germany wasn't asking for "Good Delivery Standard" bars but were going to perform this recasting themselves.<br /><br />Bundesbank gets tons of gold from New York<br /><br /> <br /><br />The Court had determined the order of the Bundestag that the Federal Bank reviews its overseas gold reserves stored exactly. It is disputed whether the Bundesbank experienced for years practice sufficient to rely only on a written confirmation to the gold bars by the foreign central banks.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The Court recommends that the Bundesbank to negotiate with the three foreign central banks the right to physical verification of stocks. With the implementation of this recommendation, the Bundesbank has begun according to the report. They also decided to bring in the next three years to 50 tons each of the past at the Fed in New York gold to Germany to get it here to undergo a thorough examination. In the report, several points are blackened. In effect, the paper is not clear exactly how much gold is in which foreign central bank.<br /><br /> <br /><br />The information held in the Federal Bank headquarters holdings consist of 82,857 according to the report bullion stored mostly in sealed containers with 50 bars, which are kept in four separate locked safe boxes. Part of it (6183 bar) stored on open shelves, therefore in a separate vault – the so-called gold chamber. To secure the gold it says in the report: “The vault closure is double, the inner seals and the gold chamber under a triple lock.”JohnMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-52220215091500270552014-01-21T04:06:20.580+08:002014-01-21T04:06:20.580+08:00"3. I'm not sure how you can have the vie...<i>"3. I'm not sure how you can have the view that the repatriation rate was decided by the Bundesbank? Surely it would have been by mutual agreement considering the circumstances in 2 above and my last paragraph."</i><br /><br />@Rod,<br /><br />No doubt that there was consultation with the NY Fed, but it seems likely the rate of repatriation was requested by Bundesbank. It was the same rate (just over a longer time frame) as initially organised for testing purposes:<br /><br /><i>"In the next three years, we will repatriate 50 tonnes of gold annually from New York to Germany. That will give us the opportunity to inspect these bars, melt them down and convert them into “Good Delivery Standard” bars."</i><br /><br /><a href="http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-10-27/bundesbanks-official-statment-where-its-gold-and-isnt" rel="nofollow">Bundesbank via ZH</a><br /><br />--------------<br /><br /><i>...since when did the repatriation of the German gold be required in good delivery bars.</i><br /><br />@JohnM,<br /><br />It was not required, it was at the request of Bundesbank, see above.Bullion Baronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10326839149017875755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6089228851855763774.post-18357625289412044332014-01-21T01:43:20.161+08:002014-01-21T01:43:20.161+08:00@AD
Beware the thundering herd.
And
I think the...@AD<br /><br />Beware the thundering herd.<br /><br />And<br /><br />I think the natives are restless.<br /><br />:)<br /><br />Oh Sinner Man<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4h55nVbt4c JohnMnoreply@blogger.com